Ruben Amaro Is a Big, Dumb Idiot, Says Buster Olney

I don't know what I'm doing!
I don’t know what I’m doing!

Buster Olney, in an ESPN Insider article today, writes about the Phillies’ horrible, terrible, silly, no-good, rotten, brainless, stiff-legged, misguided approach to trading Cole Hamels— one of their few players who has actual value in the market. The gist is that the Phillies missed the window to land the best possible package for Hamels:

If Hamels had been traded [in July], as a star left-hander under contract with playoff experience doing exceptional work — a contender would’ve surrendered a rich package in return, execs with other teams are convinced. But the Phillies insisted that not only should any interested team be willing to give up a major package of star prospects, but they also should absorb the entirety of the money owed to Hamels.

The Phillies didn’t make a deal then with this stance, nor did they make a deal when the next significant window for a Hamels trade opened, in November and early December, when he could’ve been dangled as a cheaper alternative to Jon Lester and Max Scherzer. As time goes by, Hamels’ value in the market slowly depreciates, like that of a car, with the Phillies continuing to carry the inherent risk that if any significant damage develops — if he has any physical setback — the return in trade could essentially evaporate.

Beautiful, Clark.

Olney, citing rival execs, says that the Phillies could’ve (and perhaps still could) land a significant haul of prospects for Hamels, but – surprise! – they’ll have to soften their negotiating stance, specifically when it comes to eating a large chunk of Hamels’ remaining contract. One thing the Phillies do have is talent prospects money. Olney argues that given the  recent prices of Cuban stars, which demonstrate the value of young talent, the Phillies could basically buy prospects by paying other teams to take Hamels.

I’m still not convinced you need to trade Hamels. He could conceivably be a top-line pitcher when the Phils contend again (not likely, but possible, I suppose). Of course, for that to be the case, the Phillies would need the sorts of young prospects that Hamels might be able to net them in a trade. Either way, the bottomline is that they may have missed their best chance.

Olyney also talked about Cliff Lee’s value (which is nothing at the moment), and this part makes me sad on so many levels:

The Phillies have repeatedly missed windows to make deals or better position themselves in recent years. When they traded for Roy Halladay and almost simultaneously swapped Cliff Lee to Seattle, some other teams wondered why they hadn’t been given a chance to make offers for Lee. When Lee was claimed on waivers by the Dodgers in the summer of 2012, the Phillies never engaged L.A. about what might be possible, and a few weeks later, the Dodgers concluded the massive trade with the Red Sox that allowed Boston to dump the contracts of Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett, attaching them to Adrian Gonzalez. Now Lee is coming back from surgery and is essentially untradable until he can demonstrate he is healthy, at age 36, after being shut down for elbow trouble last summer.

Ruben Amaro, ladies and gentlemen.

You can read the full article here… but, Insiders Olney.

H/T to readers Rob and Matt


40 Responses

  1. This is not an Amaro issue, he’s done a fine job. He managed to keep hall of famers like chase utley , Ryan Howard, and cole hammels. You idiots don’t understand how baseball works. They just need to develop the great minor league talent that they have. Not sign some Cuban.

    Can’t wait for my boy josh Innes to come on today at 1

  2. I’m a truck driver, I listen to the radio literally all day. I loved Bruno and Mayes , I love mike and Ike, love Mayes and baldy, hate john and Sean, hate Angelo , hate reea hews, mike miss is so so, josh Innes is completely unlistenable. Hopefully they make the change this week cuz I love Bruno but can’t listen with Innes on there

  3. Buster Olney, like many of these so called “baseball experts”, continually take shots at Amaro and the Phillies because 1) they don’t embrace their cult known as sabermetrics and 2) they don’t make deals that fit into the mainstream philosophy of “if you are not a contender and have a superstar that is over 30, you must trade said player.” Of course, real baseball fans see through this nonsense and hyperbole. The Phillies were able to win a WS, appears in 2 WS and win 5 straight NL East titles without their sabermetric cult nonsense.

    The bottom line is the Phillies don’t have a gun to their head to deal Hamels. The Phillies have made it known what they want in return to consider it. The Buster Olney’s and Keith Law’s of the world will continue to tell gullible fans on how every teams needs to rebuild and most stupid fringe baseball fans will buy into it. The Phillies, rightfully so, will continue to tell these pundits to pound sand.

    1. Dude , are you serious?

      Let me ask you something…. Bob… Have you ever kissed a girl?

      You probably think O and A are better than Stern too right ??

      Your pretty awesome.

    2. Someone ask the Camel if he wants to stay on this DOGSHIT team that has zero chance to win dick in the next 7-8 years with a big piece of fucking monkey shit KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK machine, watch Cliffo get hurt AGAIN and be 10-16 every year with a 2.00 ERA.

    3. That was the dumbest shit I’ve read in a long time Bob. Tell me how ignoring facts helps anyone? That’s what you’re saying. Just because you refuse to understand Sabermetrics, (which is fine, since you’re just a fan) doesn’t mean the guy paid millions to build a winning team should too. A man in Amaro’s position should use every single tool available to build the best team he can. It’s his duty imo, and he isn’t fulfilling his duties properly. This means he needs to be replaced. Now, not later.

      1. Billy Beane’s philosophy is solid proof that these methods will get you at least 1 playoff series win in 16 seasons. I want that. Hook it up

        1. Imagine what he could do with triple the money to spend? Do you realize that Beane did what he did because he had to? Anyone ignoring useful tools to do their job isn’t doing it properly. End of story.

          1. Sorry but im not going to marry The Other Sister because she gives the best skull. ABC 123 doesn’t always work the way you think it does. Also, the stats are just as subjective or objective (which iiiis it!?) and misleading as traditional stats. What more information does it provide? It provides a guy zoning outfields with imaginary lines and trying to figure out if player X caught the ball 5 feet further from his planted position than player Y, but wait! what if it was a ball with lower trajectory? Wait, is a slicing liner from a righty different from a lefty? Was it a line drive in a tie game or a broken bat flopper towards the line giving that fielder way more time to make up ground? Garsh, we will never know. What we do know is the second you start using formulas, people automatically think they’re smarter.

            It’s useful when evaluating ball players, but you guys act like it’s the end all. Imagine what Billy Beane could do with all that money? He doesnt need money remember.. he has a fool proof formula that helps him win like, all tha taaiiim.

            According to this thinking, Beane has the most information available. The most. You’re telling me the only thing standing in his way is payroll? Welcome to the opposite of this highly overrated philosophy.

          2. No, you’re missing my point completely. No GM only uses nothing but Sabermetrics. Nobody is saying it’s the only way to evaluate talent. The people against it (more likely they’re afraid of math) are the ones claiming it’s useless. It’s not useless. It’s one more tool available to evaluate talent. It’s already proven to give teams an edge. Even down to defensive alignment it helps.
            I didn’t bring up Beane YOU did. I didn’t say it’s the end all YOU claimed I feel that way. I feel if you are a pro sports manager you NEED to use all the tools at your disposal or you’re doing a shitty job. The proof is in the pudding fellow Phan. Nobody thinks they’re smarter for using everything at their disposal to do their job as well as they can, they know it. This is not black magic or evil. It’s just another useful tool.

          3. you don’t have to use everything at your disposal. Carpenters don’t use dynamite to demo a basement wall. It’s not about all the tools, it’s the right tools. Milton Bradley, awesome. Milton Bradley, fucking asshole. You can be blind to intangibles if you sabr the shit out of every player but at least use common sense when attributing these stats to a players worth or value. If more elevated stats are the most valuable way to analyze a player, super duper for those teams.

            Take Joe Madden, he has a terrific resume eh. He wears nutty glasses and puts guys in wacky spots on the field, so he must be a god damn genius. He doesn’t only use every tool at his disposal, he leads off an inning with a 25 year old lefty in the world series against a righty with a .975 OPS off LH pitchers and a .238 avg off righties in 2008. God damn genius i said! They use every tool because who cares, burrell was having a dumpy time at the plate in that series so get cute and don’t be conventional

    4. Buster Olney is a dimwit. Waiting until Scherzer($210 M + Lester $155 M) increased Hamels value. The Phils did the corect thing until holding onto Hamels until those 2 set the market. Hamels is a steal compared to those 2 overpaid pitchers.

  4. “I’m still not convinced you need to trade Hamels. He could conceivably be a top-line pitcher when the Phils contend again (not likely, but possible, I suppose).”

    Zero sense, this makes.

    1. I am better than their left fielder at basically everything. There’s more holes in his swing than a guy with a lot of holes in his swing.

  5. Guys, you right. RAJ is a total moron who has single handedly run this wining team directly into the ground. I am also a total moron for believing anything he has to say.

    To be honest, I don’t really know anything about sports. I just listen to Angelo and parrot everything he has to say before jacking off to reeaaa’s sexy sexy voice. But when they don’t tell me what to think I get confused. That makes my head hurt. And my balls, they hurt so much. So, I just make up something off the top of my head, which isn’t easy because there’s isn’t anything in there except a Ryan Howard bobblehead doll (BOBble, ha!).

    So thanks for settling me straight guys, it makes me feel good. In the pants.

    1. I’m so sick of you jerks using my handle. If your not nicer to me I’m not going to post anymore. Go watch some football you bruts! I’m going to take a hot bath and watch some baseball. Stop saying bad things about Josh Innes!!! I love him!!!

  6. Cliff Lee never had surgery, shut down , rest and rehab. Buster better get his facts straight.

  7. Can’t wait to go 6-17 with an ERA under 3.00 and over 200 K’s.

    Fuck this team. Why did you even bother to trade Jimmy again?

  8. I am no Ruben defender, but I think Hamels is the only player that he has handled well in terms of a possible trade. The Phillies can get back just as much for Hamels at the trade deadline as they could have last year, so this is the only player on the team that they can wait for the best deal. Just remember what very little we got back for Curt Schilling (because he was pushing a deal) when we traded him to Arizona, so I’d rather wait for a package they feel comfortable with.

    As for the other players like Howard and Papelbon, Ruben is proabably asking for too much and is way overvaluing them. Despite Papelbon having a great year last year, nobody wants that contract (he has a 13 million dollar vesting option next year), so I would take anything right now just to get him out of here. The same with Howard, as he has essentially no trade value being owed 60 million in 2015 & 2016. You essentially want to move these guys so you can see what your young players can do everyday? You move Papelbon, and we will be able to see if Giles is a closer. You move Howard, so you can put possibly Franco/Asche at 1st base/3rd base, so you can play Ruff and Dom Brown in the OF. Nobody knows how these guys will pan out, but the only way to see is play them everyday and throw in the towel for the season like the Sixers are doing now.

    1. Phillies “phans” would still bitch no matter what they would get in return. Unless the Phillies get Mike Trout, Phillies fans would still find a negative to any acquisition the Phillies made.

      If there is a silver lining, fucking Dayton Moore (Once considered the biggest idiot in baseball) got the Royals to game 7 in the world series.

      Phils are not so lucky though.

  9. Absolutely delusional if you believe Hamels may be around when the Phillies contend again. He will be washed up with a ton of innings on his arm/shoulder at that point. See Doc Halladay. And only one significant position prospect in JP Crawford. No chance in hell.

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